tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-923953963877805818.post4622113852655749389..comments2023-04-02T17:18:03.470-04:00Comments on Out of the Echo Chamber: Nadav and the Bubblealanronkinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14254219573832758649noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-923953963877805818.post-12591699946066469102011-12-01T04:22:30.760-05:002011-12-01T04:22:30.760-05:00Part 3 of 3:
As for your 'Russian friends'...Part 3 of 3:<br /><br />As for your 'Russian friends' there (in the US) -- indeed, we do not like taking prisoners, but as for your accusing us as a community that we 'eschew nuance' -- you are thereby engaging in ad hominem attacks, which are completely off target. Believe it or not, we understand a whole lot more about the whole thing than you could ever dream of. Precisely because of our background and historical baggage. As for you being "sure President Obama knows this and 'gets it' -- NO, he doesn't, not at all. To use your own term (which you applied to Lieberman), Hussain Obama is 'inexperienced' -- and this is being generous on my part. But I am not here to talk about Obama -- trust me, you don't want to get into that issue with me, either. Suffice it to say that we on the thinking Right find his "current diplomatic approach as obdurate and counterproductive" -- and this is being polite and mild.<br /><br />BTW, not to gloat or anything like that, Congress has gone over to the Right since you posted this entry, Alan. Oops ... And J Street has been shown for what it is (I'll spare the epithets here). Yet, you at JCRC chose to welcome it into your VERY broad tent. One has to be open-minded for sure, but not so open as to let the brains fall out. This is exactly what happened to the JCRC, though.<br /><br />Nuance, Alan, it's all about nuance. Please start practicing it, OK? Especially in public -- your private life is your own concern.<br /><br />Seva Brodsky<br />Boston --> Jerusalem (1 May 2007) by way of Nefesh B'NefeshAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-923953963877805818.post-35117241788424282172011-12-01T04:20:35.857-05:002011-12-01T04:20:35.857-05:00Part 2 of 3:
When you talk about the 'mainstr...Part 2 of 3:<br /><br />When you talk about the 'mainstream, centrist community' -- including yourself in it -- you may be mainstream (as in being in the majority), but centrist you are not: statistics and public opinion polls show as much. After all, if ~80% of American Jews have gone gaga and voted for Barak Hussain Obama, this does make them the majority (call them 'mainstream' if it makes you feel better), but it does NOT make them centrist. Of course, his approval ratings among the 'mainstream' Jews have gone down since (just as we on the Right have been predicting), but you get my point, I'm sure. Sticking to their guns is what people instinctively do -- never allow the facts get in the way of foregone conclusions. Is THAT a good thing? I, for one, really don't see it that way.<br /><br />Re the policy of the 'mainstream' nominally 'Jewish' 'establishment' vis-a-vis Israel -- you have to either accept your own professed slogan of "Wherever we stand, we stand with Israel" or get out of the wholesale business and go retail. Problem is, you can't do both. And if you do go retail, then you would have to criticize the idiotically leftist decisions and actions on the part of Israeli gov't. You have to be consistent and fair, otherwise you're merely preaching to the converted in your own cosy echo chamber.<br /><br />Having lived in Israel for four and a half years by now, I can tell you that Israeli politics is a dirty mess -- as I'm sure you've heard before. But I am only now beginning to understand the many nuances inherent therein, of which you speak so much, but which you yourself do not practice. So decide which business you're in -- wholesale or retail -- and stay there. I suggest you go wholesale, as it's much simpler and easier. And if you violate that policy divide, then I'll call you on it each and every time I hear about it, as I am in the retail side of things myself, and I do happen to know quite a few details and nuances you may not be even aware of. So watch what you say, Alan, as you not only do not know much about the matters of security but also the internal Israeli politics, much of which makes me sick, too -- some of it for the very same reasons that make you disgusted with it, but some for exactly the opposite reasons. So, please, stop babbling about Judea and Samaria and other such very complex matters and issues that you really do not fully understand in all their intricate details and nuances, OK? Stay on the wholesale side, please.<br /><br />As for our Foreign Minister, Avigdor Lieberman -- believe it or not, Alan, he's enjoying a sufficiently high approval rating within Israel, higher than your beloved Hussain Obama (both in Israel and in the US). So eat that, if you can swallow it :-) It is not for you, Alan, to judge whether Lieberman has got it all figured out -- in fact, he has, but he's got enough idiotic opposition, which make his life harder -- and for the record, I did not vote for Israel Beiteinu, I voted for Likud, but I like Avigdor very much. Make of it what you will (I know what you're thinking right now :-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-923953963877805818.post-17782108261725064012011-12-01T04:18:14.698-05:002011-12-01T04:18:14.698-05:00You wanted thoughts, Alan? Well, here you go.
Par...You wanted thoughts, Alan? Well, here you go.<br /><br />Part 1 of 3:<br /><br />What Nadav has done was utterly unprofessional to say the least; his vile deed actually rises to a much higher level of impropriety. But it's all water under the bridge now - Nadav is gone after his term expired (he should have been fired, though).<br /><br />What concerns me a lot more than that ugly (by now stale) story, though, is YOU, Alan, your views, opinions, and the echos you create in your own echo chamber. I promised to hold you up to your own standards after your first posting, so here we go:<br /><br />Nadav Tamir and you, Alan Ronkin, are birds of a feather, so it is quite natural that you would come to his defense - after all, you wrote here that "Nadav is a friend" of yours. As for the presence or lack of intent to leak the memo -- common, Alan, you can't be so naive as to believe it was accidental. You either don't know how politics work (yeah, right ...), or are clueless about how things are done in Israeli politics (for your own sake I hope it's the latter), or, much worse still, you are being duplicitous, making an innocent face.<br /><br />When you're talking about the supposed 'mainstream' of the Jewish community, you're talking about the nominally 'Jewish' secular left-wing 'liberal' 'progressive' section of the American Jewry (there's hardly anything truly 'Liberal' or 'Progressive' about them -- intolerant and dogmatic leftism is a more apt description of that slice of the population). You know, Alan, the majority can be wrong, and the minority can be right (even when they are on the Right). In fact, one person could be right, and the whole world could be wrong, as history teaches us.<br /><br />Now, the real question is, who's got it right? Who figured out what really is taking place, having separated the wheat from the chaff? You tend to think that it's the 'liberal progressives' -- we, the Conservatives (including most of the 'Russians') tend to think that we did. How can one tell definitively who is right and who is wrong? Well, there is the reality test -- if our predictions are correct in that they come to life (very unfortunately sometimes), then probably we got it all figured out. Who keeps the score, though? Do you? I do. And have I got stories to tell you ...<br /><br />As for the fact that "folks are not shy about being rude, disrespectful and will attack people personally when they disagree with them" -- as you correctly pointed out, "One only need read the comments posted on MSM articles" to see as much. News flash: people are people, and there are as many rude and disrespectful people on the Right as there are on the Left (I would argue that there are more such people on the Left, but let's just ascribe this to our personal preferences and biases).<br /><br />And yes, Alan, as you have so correctly pointed out, we on the Right "are smart, cunning and unafraid" -- thank you for the compliment. Being one of the 'Russians' myself, I have to say that much of your assessment of us is on target -- we have learned not to trust the authority automatically, to question everything, to read b/w the lines, etc. Some of us are even on the rude side, I have to admit -- this comes from the lack of proper Liberal, pluralistic, tolerant, and democratic upbringing (homo Sovieticus). Please forgive those of us who don't do it out of malice, but merely on account of the difficult baggage we carry. <br /><br />Having said that, I have encountered enough leftists in the US (and especially so in the People's Republic of MA), including 'liberal' 'progressive' Jews who have been utterly disrespectful, rude, downright nasty, and sometimes verbally and even physically violent. So please hold your horses when you are tempted to come out with accusations in our regard, OK? Lest I inundate you with horror stories of barbaric behavior on the Left.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-923953963877805818.post-19916262812095985402009-08-14T13:37:14.381-04:002009-08-14T13:37:14.381-04:00Thanks for your note! I would be great to continu...Thanks for your note! I would be great to continue this discussion off-line. Please be in touch so we can chat.<br /><br />aronkin@jcrcboston.orgalanronkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14254219573832758649noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-923953963877805818.post-25781210693091122892009-08-14T12:40:50.951-04:002009-08-14T12:40:50.951-04:00Thankfully you're proof that not all of the Je...Thankfully you're proof that not all of the Jewish leadership in Boston are dismissive of my generation. The sooner the powers-that-be understand that they ought to pay more attention to the new-age facebook folks that helped get Obama elected, and who have no interest whatsoever in the organizational politics dividing our community, the sooner they'll begin to bring more of them on board. I don't know why they spend so much time fearing J-Street, rather than figuring out how they are bringing more and more 20-somethings on board. It's an absolute shame how much time and resources are continously devoted to programs targeting that age group that have no chance of bringing new folks into the fray.Joshnoreply@blogger.com